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Zeofar



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PostSubject: Death Knight   Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:49 pm

25 Swords
20 Death
05 Incantation
10 Evocation
06 Meditation
20 Find Weakness
14 Lore

Still thinking about it.


Last edited by on Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wi

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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:53 pm

and where is lore?
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Zeofar



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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:05 am

Meh, I don't know what I was thinking, I was upset when I made it. I'll take another look in the morning.
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Salkand



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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:13 am

Adjust the stats to a level 30, giving an extra 16 skills. Add 6 lore. Theres the lore. Why do you need evocation. I am guessing he is a meleer who uses death magic. Therefore he only has Destruction and deathray. Destruction is incantation. I would say train 10 incan and 5 evo. If you join mages you would have 20 meditation and 50% more mana, without having negatives to the other skills. Also, you still have 10 free skill points, you could put those into strength, or use pots and such. Wouldn't training whips compliment the high death skill?
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Zeofar



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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:18 am

Aye, I don't intend for this to be in any Guilds. Also, note, That this is a Death Knight. Training whips defeats the purpose entirely. Also, you forget about Vampire Blade and Blood Dart,which at 20 Death Magic, get relatively powerful. I'm not one for destruction, either, which is why its a relatively small part of the build.
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Warcow
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:01 pm

10 evocation just for death ray and acid dart? meh...I'm all for destruction

but if I were to make one, I'd probably go for a fire giant and ditch the fw ...cuz unguilded human just don't have enough hp to work with imo
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Salkand



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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:17 pm

Why? Imagin this in the mages guild with two Melee resistance rings and a max mana shield. A devestating sword attack, as well as a devestating destruction and death ray. Then you add vampire blade, that makes this a powerful spell.

I have 27 death. I know for a fact that blood dart isn't a spell you want to depend on in PK. Although it's a fun spell. Someone with 25 water can beat my blood dart with an acid dart.

Kathy, I have long been for negatives in the mages guild for weapons. The problem is, mages do not get good enough benifits compared to the other guilds. Although, as opposed to building the mages up, I like Kingfry's idea on weakening the other guilds. You should really find his guild topic for it is an interesting read.

I believe this skillset is wasted on unguilded. Because guilding it can IMO make this a very good warrior.
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Crinox

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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:44 pm

>.> lol ive tried a swordmage ... run away ... far away ... it failed lol.... ull be hitting badly and ull have to use spells on most of the stronger creatures ... if you want to kill them in a reasonable amount of time ... and swords w/o fw is reallllly bad ... 'specuially if u rnt spam healin to stay alive .... RUN AWAY
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Mikenewbie

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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:08 pm

Kathy of Varak wrote:
Salkand wrote:
If you join mages you would have 20 meditation and 50% more mana, without having negatives to the other skills. Also, you still have 10 free skill points, you could put those into strength, or use pots and such. Wouldn't training whips compliment the high death skill?

There you point out the greatest flaw in the mages guild, it's not balanced towards unguilded, whatever you use in mages you're stronger then an unguilded player. That's why mages need negatives in ALL weapons.

I thought a guilded player was supposed to be stronger, at least overall, than an unguilded one? If an unguilded player is on equal footing with a guilded one, then it'd be a waste of time questing and 100,000 gold. (In this case, a Mage would be overall equal to an unguilded player - greater spellcasting capability is offset by poor melee.) Perhaps I misunderstood what you said.
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Zeofar



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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:42 pm

She said that simply by joining a Guild, A Meleer is stronger than he was before. That should NOT be the case for joining the Mages guild, but it is.
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Mikenewbie

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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:14 pm

Zeofar wrote:
She said that simply by joining a Guild, A Meleer is stronger than he was before. That should NOT be the case for joining the Mages guild, but it is.

I don't see how. Joining the Mage's Guild gives no bonuses and quite substantial penalties for your melee stats.

The only thing I can see being of help for a Mage in melee is that mana boost, IF you use Mana Shield. The 5% initial bonus will not make any difference in an actual fight, and at Archmage where you get a 50% bonus, a non-guilded player would be at a high enough level to effectively use something much more powerful: spam healing.

Edit: Well, I guess a Mage can spam heal too, which gives him effectively 50% more HP than a non-guilded meleer. But it still makes sense - if a Mage is intentionally meleeing a fighter, then it obviously means his skill sets -guild effects taken into account- are geared towards meleeing, which would in essense, mean that the "Mage" is actually a meleer himself. This brings us back to the "Guilded > Unguilded" rule.


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Tanm



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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:16 pm

The minus is in the Melee skill, which is broken. It needs to be switched to a minus in all weapons to be effective. As it stands, any one, for example a polearms user who has no guild, can join, and get a bonus. Of course, most of these don't have spells to use to gain guild xp, but still, a little bit of help at no penalty to skills.
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Mikenewbie

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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:20 pm

Tanm wrote:
The minus is in the Melee skill, which is broken. It needs to be switched to a minus in all weapons to be effective. As it stands, any one, for example a polearms user who has no guild, can join, and get a bonus. Of course, most of these don't have spells to use to gain guild xp, but still, a little bit of help at no penalty to skills but a huge penalty to his wallet.

Fixed your post for you, Tanm. Cool
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Tanm



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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:21 pm

Hmm, point taken Razz
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Zeofar



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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:33 pm

Yeah, but 100K to some of the more experienced players is nothing, and they can regain it in about 20 minutes, no matter what build they are using.
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Ignignok
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:42 am

well kathy...i dont know about you...but i can level any guild/race combo as fast as i want to..there is not anything that can slow me down as of right now

since i can rd at lvl 19, even the slower races, can catch up to xp to the other races that gain xp real fast


i know all guilds need to be nerfed..and salkand is right to agree with me, because in order to nerf the game effectively..the game needs to nerf me..cause i have figured out how to train effectively with anything, along with thundax

i know i sound like a Jackass in saying so, but it is true...i have a lvl 19 mage in 14 hours, with all his skills trained, and good armor, and 150k more gold, i have a lvl 17 frost giant in 9 hours, and will rd soon, i have my naga, who with time, will rd at lvl 23, and train from lvl 20-23 in 7 hours or so(he is lvl 1 right now)

in fact, the longest race/guild combonation would be that of a "non human/halfling" unguilded person...and that is something id never make anyways...i can go unguilded..id never use your skill set..cause i kill faster, and i like to kill fast

so nerf game= nerf me= slower leveling to all players, and then the game will be as challenging to me as it was about 6 months into playing for me, which is when i had kingfry at lvl 24, as a healing skll person
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Ignignok
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:45 am

http://www.wyverneers.biz/viewtopic.php?t=1089 that is what i had proposed for nerfing the game
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Mikenewbie

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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:56 pm

Kathy of Varak wrote:
Mages is flaud, it does give a positive (+5% mana at each level) but offers no negatives to compensate.

So you don't call a negative to all but two or three weapon skills in the game a penalty?

Zeofar wrote:
Yeah, but 100K to some of the more experienced players is nothing, and they can regain it in about 20 minutes, no matter what build they are using.

You act as if a 5% mana bonus and one Meditation counts as something.
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Ignignok
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:11 pm

why are we only talking about 1 guild? all guilds need negatives >_> spam healing needs to be nerfed..rod healing already has a cool down, and all the other players barely use it as a 100% fix, they hate using it in fact

*restating guild nerfs to a lot leser extent*

now add -20 in all arts for caveman..no healing

-10 arts/elements -5 med in axe guild, and they can heal, but, to a way lesser extent

monks, need the negatives to screw nagas from being invinvible...they say nagas might be balanced cause they are only good in pk..i beg to differ..ill make my naga get the highest xp/sec ratio and then we'll talk about them being balanced k?

rangers--can be screwed no matter what they do..xerxes spam heals with rods, he wins a few lq's cause he knows a few weaknesses...countered as of right now btw, but most rangers dont have benefactors, or patience to get to 20 incantation so they are balanced

archers most balanced IMO..cant heal really, can be good with melee skill trained as with all archers in real settings

rogues-no one makes forged weapons, so they are stuck with weak uni horn, low hp, stab attack, so they do less damage to a lot of monsters already

mages..need -'s in melee skills, so they cant be hydrids, and will be forced to use spells, they get no help in training costs...that in itself totally delays many people from becoming powerful mages
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Ignignok
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:19 pm

then answer me this? why magic whip then..i am pretty sure they should be allowed to use whips, if it was magic whip...i say negatives in all other weapon skills, thought i posted that in the other forum...on that link
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Wi

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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:20 pm

i think mages should get

-5% hp per level
+10% sp per level
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Ignignok
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:22 pm

so you are saying this pixies are supposed to have 40 hp(or less) at lvl 30 and be one hittined through the mana shield bug? lol...ya right >_>
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Ignignok
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:26 pm

that would be good too...if this were put in place then...guild only weapons that mages are only allowed to use, so no magic whip


glacier/ember whip, and the staves...therefore they can train whips, but not be allowed to use magic whip..thus making the mages balanced
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:31 pm

Ignignok wrote:
thus making the mages balanced

Mages will never be balanced.

Period.
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PostSubject: Re: Death Knight   Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:36 pm

As for a mage using a weapon, its a no win scenario. I abhor using a weapon on my mage alt, except for the ones that give the bonuses to elements, for offensive spell use. Everytime I forget to unwield the firestaff, or ember dagger, any monster with recoil is drawn to me, lol.
A pure mage is not going to allow a monster to get in melee range, if they are smart. And as to applying on stairs, have blink aliased,and recall spell already cast. That will give you a chance to escape, then prepare the attack spells.
The staffs that Cinaeth made were a good idea, a basic self defense weapon, with the + for the element. Same for the ember, and glacier daggers. It never set well with me seeing a mage charge into combat. Magic whip is a okay spell, but not when its a mages main offense.
Anything a mage wields needs to be some type of aid to their magic, not for use as a weapon.
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